Is America’s wine taste going forward, or backward?
I suppose I shouldn’t complain whenever people are buying wine, even when it’s bad wine, because after all, drinking bad wine is better than not drinking wine at all…I think. But I do like to think that the quality curve of what consumers are buying goes consistently in one direction: up. Lately, though, I’m beginning to wonder if the country’s wine taste isn’t heading in the wrong direction.
This concern on my part started earlier this year, when I first became aware of the Moscato boomlet. Someone at the magazine heard about it before I did. I looked into it, and discovered that, yes, there is something of a Moscato trend happening–but at such a low level that it was below my radar. I’m pretty good at wine trends, but I can’t know everything; most of what I know is about premium wines. The Moscato thing was more about the bottom of the supermarket shelf–not normally a location I’m concerned with.
And yet, there it was: suddenly the gigantic wine companies are rushing to buy Moscato, or bud their vineyards over to it, in order to satisfy this burgeoning demand. What of the wines themselves? From what I’ve tasted, they’re simple, sugary sweet, and generally cost less than $10.
At around the same time, last summer, I started hearing about another boomlet, this time in sweet red wines. Certain key people mentioned it to me. Then, I began getting tasting samples. They usually had words like “delicious” and “sweet” in their proprietary names. The accompanying paperwork seldom mentioned what the grape varieties were, but it hardly mattered. The wines were boringly sweet to the point of insipid. But I did my job, reviewed them as assiduously as anything else, and, based on my tasting experiences, blind, routinely gave them scores ranging from 22 (undrinkable) to the low and mid-80s.
Somewhere in the back of my mind since last summer I’ve thought, “What’s up with these sweet red and white wines?” but I never really developed it. It was one of those inchoate notions that doesn’t go anywhere, until something external pops up and pushes it along. Well, that external thing finally happened two days ago, in the form of this article from the San Francisco Chronicle, entitled “New drinkers get crush on sweet reds.” [In the online version, they changed the headline to “Beginner drinkers get a crush on sweet red wines.” This is due to the Editors’ Full Employment Act, whereby print editors are not online editors, and vice versa, meaning each gets to write his own headline.]
The article says the popularity of these wines is with younger drinkers, and quotes a marketing manager that it’s mainly in the southern and midwestern states. I’m not surprised at either assertion. Younger drinkers, having bad taste, would naturally gravitate toward sweet wines. And I suspect that, when it comes to epicurean things such as wine and cuisine, standards are lower in the rural, Bible Belt parts of the country than in the big cities. Maybe these sweet wines pair well with a Hardee’s Double Bacon Cheese Thickburger and a White Castle Chocolate Shake, which together contain 3,000 calories. I wouldn’t know.
I do know all about the theory that beginning drinkers start with the cheap stuff, then move upward to fine wine. I did that myself. But the reason I’m thinking that things may be moving in the wrong direction–devolving, as it were–is this: If these beginning drinkers were starting with inexpensive dry wine–and there’s a boatload of it out there, red and white–that would be fine. They could get into wine via (let’s say) a nice Chateau Ste. Michelle Riesling for 9 bucks, then move on up to whatever.
But to start with sweet insipid wines? I don’t see how that ever evolves. Once these people are addicted to syrup, it’s awfully hard to get them to like anything actually dry. They’d find it “sour” or “bitter” or just “Eeew.” That’s why I’m talking about devolution. Let’s face it, the country is dumbing down–we all know it. More and more people believe in creationism, that the world is 5,700 years old and dinosaurs used to play with little human babies. They think proven scientific fact is just somebody’s opinion. A lot of them don’t drink alcohol (either because they’re former abusers, or they think it’s against their religion), but I bet that, of those who do, they prefer these cheap, sweet wines to anything decent.
Yet another sophomoric, offensive political article dressed up as wine commentary.
They could get into Pedro Ximenez, or Icewein, or Sauternes, or perhaps become enthusiasts for Colheita Ports. Maybe even become top consumers of Late Harvest wines. So narrow minded, Steve. Come on.
“Younger drinkers, having bad taste, would naturally gravitate toward sweet wines.”
That is sure to piss off a few of us with poor palates! I knew that you were getting old and crotchety, but not to that extent. I agree with Rogersworthe above and just leave my comments with that.
Rogersworthe and Colorado: Come on, guys. I was talking about el cheapo sweet wines, not top stuff like PX and Sauternes. Colorado, you’re on a slippery slope if you’re arguing that there’s no such thing as taste — that everybody’s preferences are equal, so that no judgments can be made. You don’t really believe that, do you?
Well I totally agree. I mean, what if a bunch of people started drinking wine after tasting things like White Zinfandel or some broad market, mass produced, semi-sweet Chardonnay?
Oh, wait….
Some people are just never going to appreciate fine wine.
It’s science Steve. As you age, your tolerance for sugar declines. It is why kids can eat the most sugary foods while adults generally avoid them. This trend won’t last.
None-the-less, I find almost too much arrogance in this post to comment. These are small trends Steve. Come tasting with some actual young people some time. You might be impressed by what they are drinking an know. Or maybe you won’t. Sorry I am not as refined in my palate as Mr. Harlan. I also do not wear ascots.
From what I see it’s not younger drinkers that prefer the sweeter stuff but people who drink little if any wine that prefer the sweeter wines. I always like pouring a couple dry but fruity whites for them prior to going to the sweet stuff, hoping they may find out they like something drier. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.
I, myself, and I think many other people would rather not drink wine at all than drink bad wine. A factor that no one has mentioned yet is that these sweet style wines are lower in alcohol and a person so inclined may drink several glasses and fell none the worse for wear. I used to enjoy a glass of lightly frizzante moscato sometimes, with a small piece of chocolate after a light summer dinner.
And Steve, ‘young drinkers have bad taste’ (?) I will grant that some wear their hats backwards and some affect black nail polish and sport more metal on there faces than I do. Oh wait, I forgot the tattos. Lots of YOUNG people with bad taste get tattoed. LOL Big Obvious ones. LOL.
( I think Steves evil twin wrote this article while the real Steve is sleeping off a big dinner.}
While I fully believe that there are good wines and bad wines, such judgement should be left to each individual’s taste. This is also one of my arguments against the 100-pt system, that that is neither here nor there. Taste is how something is perceived and relished. Just as lover of Monet may think Dalí’s works are utter crap, both have a place in the world of Art. Just because someone prefers burgers and fries to caviar and foie gras doesn’t mean they have bad taste. I may not agree with my mother-in-law for drinking Franzia chilled with an ice cube, but that is what she enjoys drinking. In each case, the perception of quality is very subjective and personal. Who am I, or who are you, to say that someone else has bad taste? There is nothing wrong with preferring different wines, art or foods. Your job is to tell people what you enjoy about certain wines, not to tell people what to enjoy themselves. I support your efforts, along with other wine “personalities,” of educating the wine consuming public and encouraging them learn about wine to drink “better” wine, but I do not support demeaning anyone for preferring Barefoot Moscato to Fetzer Merlot.
Excuse me, Steve, but your slip is showing.
I agree, kids and southerners and midwesterners and lower class rural people lack taste and the proper socio-politico-cultural views. What about Muslims, with their hummus and daily prayers and Friday sermons? They don’t even drink sacramental wine! And Blacks? What do they drink? You did not explain what’s wrong with the world view and wine drinking habits of Blacks? And poor people? I cannot believe that poor people refuse to make do with sensibly priced Rieslings either. And women? Do you also have a problem with women?
Steve, you are an authority on sanitary, overripe, imbalanced New World wine, so your commentary on Hardees, rural people, and the proper socio-politico-cultural perspective is appropriate and appreciated.
Dear Steve, I don’t know how you got from my commentary on the popularity of sweet wines in America to Muslims, Blacks and women. That’s called a reductio ad absurdum.
Everyone is so sensitve today! Jeez. Lighten up people. I think the point here is that there is a booming market for sweet wines of all sorts, which is by default, bringing more people into the world of wine. How great is that! Don’t you all remember what we were drinking when we were young? We think that stuff is utter garbage now, right? BUT, you have to start somewhere. Don’t you want people who are dabbling with their alcohol choices to choose wine over beer or spirits? I know I do. Eventually, this generation will learn their palates as well and will grow out of the sweet wines and into other more refined choices. Until then, I think there’s a place at the table for everyone.
Let’s all treat each other with some care here. We’re in this thing together.
Besides people starting out with sweet tastes and moving to dry, I think we also tend to start out in wine with what we can identify. Wines like Muscat kind of knock you over the head. You remember them, buy them again, but ultimately get bored. Gradually we progress to more subtle things. We should be glad they aren’t drinking Night Train or Bali Hi like we did in the sixties. Seems like we have a lot better class of wines today to start out on.
My twenty something son still seems to prefer beer or vodka mixed with something fruity, but I’m not worried. I made him a “pipe” of port before he was born, so I hope he retains a taste for something sweet. He has about 50 cases to work thru.
I agree that the more people being introduced to wine, the better. And just as our taste in music, food, fashion & politics generally evolve over the years, so does our appreciation of wine styles.
But to be fair Steve, “tolerance” should go both ways. I suspect if someone had written a piece similar to yours but inserted “minority”, ‘gay”, and “liberal” in place of young, rural and Bible Belt, you would suddenly see the hidden disdain and offense in what you wrote.
Think about it…
OMG. the sweeping statements (like pointed out by Colorado) are beyond crazy. steve, this is in total contradiction to a post some time ago, when you visited with some bay area college students, and you were impressed with their broad wine interest. WHAT THE WHAT?
I don’t think America’s tastes are going backwards. Sweetness as a lure, might be going out to more people in today’s market. And I believe that someday these folks drinking Moscato will tell how their pallet evolved (to what?) in the future. There are many methods of enticement in the wine world. And we all respond to different lures.
What an ignorant, arrogant post!
Steve’s post may not be politically correct, but most of us have probably made a few jokes about these wines (and those who drink them). I also have to say that I once heard a Master Sommelier rebuke a budding student by saying “Thank God for White Zinfandel, they could be drinking iced tea and getting free refills!”
Bill Smart is right. Lighten up people! I’ve been to wineries in the South (Yadkin Valley, North Carolina) where I asked a winemaker once if there was RS in his Cabernet Sauvignon…he told me “No!, I fermented the wine dry and then made it sweet…” I asked how, he responded “50 lb sacks of pure cane sugar.” Yikes, I asked why and he said, “people want it sweet!” (true story). I’ve also visited wineries in Michigan where at least 15 of the twenty wines they were pouring were sweet or sweetened. The south and Midwest are producing alot of American varieties, Concord, Niagara, Scuppernong etc that are sweet but are also now making vitas vinifera varieties sweet too. I pour my dry wines for tourists all day long and people are always asking if I have any sweet wines… I don’t mind if people who are trying to drink wine like sweet wines at first…at least they are trying!
How inspiring. And who said you couldn’t teach an old dog new tricks? I hope that when I am old and sipping my fancy, expensive wine with my pinkie finger extended, I am as snobby and elitist as you are. Good job.
“And I suspect that, when it comes to epicurean things such as wine and cuisine, standards are lower in the rural, Bible Belt parts of the country than in the big cities.”
I am a small-town Midwesterner living in Atlanta now, where we have incredible restaurants leading the farm-to-table movement, several great wine shops, a lot of great palates, and yes, some folks who fall into the tired old stereotype of Southerners… Steve, I really like your writing, but if you are going to call out people for poor taste (which is fine with me to get the debate started), then drop the PC BS and call them out! The folks in the South preaching the virtues of Moscato are the same ones who proclaimed that Cristal was da bomb. Before you go there, I don’t have a bigoted bone in my body, but I am sick of the PC crap getting in the way of the discussion. Call it like you see it, but don’t play it safe.
Jesus (a great fan of moscato) must be spinning in his grave because of this post….
A good, decent, well-made moscato can be just delicious. You seem to have leveled the field, Steve.
I’ve tasted moscatos from Italia, Portugal and even Brazil (a good place for moscatos). They can be very good.
Steve, it’s your blog, have at it; I often find you offensive, but interesting, like the painters referred to by others, none of them could compete with their creations and I doubt that you do either.
Since I probably have the “youngest” palate of all your readers, and just maybe I’m the most “conservative” I trust that I’ll be able to add something: “Why so serious” is a phase I’ve begun to use regularly, and that applies to the “heat” I’m hearing in the comments. In the sixties I tried wine but found it terrible, but if I had advice, or knew where to look for it, from critics who pointed the way (No blogs in the 60s) to, say a Murphy-Goode 2008 Pinot Noir for $12.00 today, but accounting for inflation, maybe $4.00 then, I might just have started on the path to “good” wine drinking 40 years ago.
With the economy so bad (Blame enough to go around) it’s no surprise that people, especially young people (hurt the hardest) are buying “cheap” wine, and though the price of a wine is no guaranty of a “good” wine, it’s obvious (I think) that the more expensive a wine is, the GREATER the likelihood it will be a better wine.
Someone said we are in this together, I like that and I hope so.
Dennis, thanks. “Offensive” is when someone specific is targeted with an accusation that isn’t true, or is insulting. In this post, I didn’t target specific individuals. I just wondered if as a group people under, say, 30 aren’t dumbing wine down. Believe me, most of my friends are in the 20s and 30s. I love that generation. They’re the hope for the future. But there is a certain tendency on their part to throw away the lessons of the past and to believe they’re the first ones of their kind. This is never a smart way to look at the world. I’m rambling, but your comment touched me and I want to try to let you know that I respect what you’re saying.
Steve, thanks for your not so rambling reply.
I look forward to and read you posts; that says something!
Sincerely,
Dennis
If Steve really was playing this straight, and the post was truly not just his normal “politics disguised as wine”, why did he ignore the line from Gallo that sweet reds were exploding in the Bay Area (30x last year)? I guess that didn’t fit his bigoted narrative.
James: ?? What are you talking about?
Overlooked in this ranting is the hegemony of the 60+ year old males in the wine world. Women tend to have more acutely tuned palates, while it’s also well known that sensory capacity declines with age. No wonder tired, old wines and massive, overripe bombs are praised by the cognoscenti, albeit for different reasons. Oeno-geronto-necrophilia and oeno-querceto-megalophilia are interests in wine taken to an extreme by those without any self-awareness and some decline in sensory capacity. We can do without these Sucklings and Parkers whose egos have grown inversely to their ability to offer useful criticism.
I’m not claiming that sweet wine drinkers have any better palates. Sweetness does drown out complexity and nuance when not in balance. But at least they are honest and lacking in pretense. And their preferences are harmless in comparison to the huffing and bloviating of the self-appointed tastemakers.
You chose to focus on the quote about Midwesten and Southern wine drinkers, in order to make quotes such as
“And I suspect that, when it comes to epicurean things such as wine and cuisine, standards are lower in the rural, Bible Belt parts of the country than in the big cities. Maybe these sweet wines pair well with a Hardee’s Double Bacon Cheese Thickburger and a White Castle Chocolate Shake, which together contain 3,000 calories. I wouldn’t know.”
and
“More and more people believe in creationism, that the world is 5,700 years old and dinosaurs used to play with little human babies. They think proven scientific fact is just somebody’s opinion.”
Why not quote Stephanie Gallo stating that their sweet red wine had exploded by 30X in the Bay area??
James – ever consider that there might be proximal causes for Gallo’s sweet red wine exploding by 30X in the Bay area other than a massive infusion of hillbillies? Perhaps Gallo’s unstoppable marketing machine and aggressive pricing might have something to do with it? Or maybe it is evidence of traction for the “no wine over 14%” meme among hipsters? And 30X from what baseline? One case? If so, a 30X is not that impressive.
But to all of y’all: How dare any of you question my god-given right to judge and disparage you for: your preference for Kinkade over Basquiat? Beck over Olbermann? Your belief in creationism or intelligent design? Your love of NASCAR? The bread and circuses of all professional sport over civic engagement? Your tribal views of humanity? Your blaming undocumented economic refugees for all of “our” economic woes? Your unshakeable and completely erroneous assertion that mainstream media are “liberal”? HOW DARE YOU?!!!
This is America gosh darn it, and I am entitled to espouse whatever opinion I want on my own blog – even in the comments on others’ blogs. And my opinion is no less valid than yours. In fact, in my opinion, my opinion is WAY more valid than yours.
BTW – Barefoot Moscato is pretty tasty, and a good value.
John,
I don’t live in either of the regions that Steve disparaged. The article that he used as the basis of mocking Midwesterners and Southerners, because of a quote by a marketing manager at a medium sized winery, in fact quoted a much larger organization saying that the trend was exploding in Southern California and the Bay area also. Thus, his entire premise was wrong.
It is his blog, and I know he thinks I’m wrong, and I can live with that. His intellectual dishonesty, however, in creating a reason to write an article about our tastes (and country) devolving, and filling it with prejudiced generalizations, needs to be questioned.
A lot of people who seem so outraged about this post obviously aren’t tuned in to pop culture, especially hip-hop. I don’t listen to it myself, but my kids do. Recently, one of my sons was watching a video of Drake – who is a popular rapper – and I happened to be by the computer. To my amazement he said the word “moscato,” while raising up a glass of the sweet white wine. Here are the specific lyrics:
It’s a celebration
clap, clap bravo
lobster and shrimp and a glass of moscato…
This was released in 2009. Being that Drake is apparently very popular, this had a huge influence on listeners.
Search on “moscato rap” and you’ll see articles like this:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/food-and-wine/wine/beppi-crosariol/what-up-moscato-hip-hop-royalty-give-humble-grape-something-to-brag-about/article2028147/
that will attest to hip-hop’s – and Drake’s influence on the moscato boom.
Steve, you go on boy! I got a big laugh out of your article because it rang true with me. As a side note, my son who was watching the video asked me about moscato, and I replied that there are great wines made from the grape, but a lot of what’s out there is swill. He nodded thoughtfully and asked if we could do a tasting some time. I told him absolutely, as I’ve been sharing my passion for fine with my kids so they learn to discern wines at an early age. 🙂
Brendan – excellent! I love this.
James – There is no requirement that Steve’s premise be “right” – he is expressing an opinion, however un-original. Surely you aren’t suggesting that this is the first opinion piece in the history of writing that sets up the straw man of “our cultural tastes are devolving”?
And, far from questioning what you believe to be the intellectual dishonesty of an article filled with what you feel are prejudiced generalizations, you opened the comment thread with “Yet another sophomoric, offensive political article dressed up as wine commentary.” Sir, in my opinion this was an ill-considered criticism bordering on an ad hominem attack, and completely shot your credibility with this reader.
I don’t question Mr. McCann’s right to disagree with Steve about the whats or whys or wherefores or meaning of the increase in sweet wine drinking.
I question his initial post that attacked Steve’s politics.
Steve chooses to mix politics into his personal blog. Okay. I get it, but the blog was not political, and Mr. McCann went in the wrong direction in my view in his initial comments.
Personally, I think Steve is wrong about the meaning of the Moscato craze. I have not forgotten that my wine drinking started wtih Guild Tavola Red, soft and sweet. Or that it made a stop at Lancers and Mateus. Ultimately, some will find there ways to drier and fancier wines, but most will not, just as most Lancer’s drinkers have not become fans of DRC, Harlan and Hermitage.
“But there is a certain tendency on their part to throw away the lessons of the past and to believe they’re the first ones of their kind”
Isn’t this one of the great parts of being young? Isn’t losing this tendency one of the great tragedies of growing old?
Charlie,
I respect your writing and opinions; however, how is one supposed to interpret his last paragraph? (Especially in light of his conveniently leaving out the quote that both Southern CA and the Bay area were experiencing the same boom?)
I get it that Steve mixes in politics, and that this blog is probably to some degree his outlet. But if he wasn’t trying to make a point about Bible toting, dinosaur riding, Hardees eating, sweet wine drinking Southerners, then why include all that nonsense?
Mr. McCann–
Ny interpretation comes in two parts. The first is that Steve is wrong about the evolution of some people’s palates. To me, that is the salient point.
His comments about people who do not see change is partly political and partly a lament about the kind of closed mindedness that cannot keeps intellect from growing. It is a stretched analogy, but it is not the point, and thus it is not, in my view, a reason to bash Steve personally. As I said over on my blog in much greater length, I don’t do politics at all if I can help it. I do wine, but I do not think that Steve needs to limit himself just because I choose to.
Charlie,
Fair enough.
Steve,
I generally like your blog, but you just missed the mark on many levels with this one. The most egregious is making the assumption that dry wines, by definition, are higher quality than sweeter wines. I happen to prefer dry wines myself, but quality is not only in the eye of the beholder, it is also a reflection of trends and perception in a given time. We don’t have to look very far back to see how this works. Take Chardonnay; it wasn’t long ago that “oaky, buttery” Chardonnay’s were considered better than other styles of Chardonnay. They received better scores/reviews and fetched higher prices. That trend has reverted to a preference for more “balanced” Chardonnay, which now receive better scores and fetch higher prices. The Moscato and sweet red trends will level out and the wines will find their own niche in the marketplace. They are, in fact, bringing new wine drinkers to the table. People who, by and large, weren’t invited in the past. Let’s hope they stay!
As for your comments on the Midwest and South, I lived in the Bay Area for many, many years and it is wonderful. I now live in the Midwest and routinely travel all over the country selling wine, both in big cities and smaller communities. There really isn’t that big a difference anymore. If you wouldn’t know (as you stated) then maybe you shouldn’t speak/write about it.
Thank you, Chris.
I’m still hung up on the words “bad wine.”
In my training, I learned that “bad wine” is in fact a technical descriptor, not a subjective one. So, when one uses the phrase, one ought to spell out what is technically “bad” about the wine.
If it’s bad because it isn’t what you like, the wine isn’t necessarily bad, but your training may have been bad.
I am generally a wine drinker who eschews most sweet wines, even the expensive ones! But it still bothers me when people in the wine business on any level, even critics, have a knee-jerk reaction against sweet wine, as if there is a standard somewhere that they are referring to that proclaims one particular wine component statistic as THE one.
The definition of wine does neither includes the word “dry” nor “sweet.”
The definition is: An alcoholic drink made from fermented grape juice.
What a shame to see so many ‘experts’ so out of touch.
Steve,
As a wine retailer, i’m seeing the Moscato boom happening mostly in the 55+ yr old catagory. I.e. those who lost most of their retirement income, without the time to recover. I’m watching the under 30 catagory really embracing European wines $12-25 per bottle. Just some food for thought.
I’d put either of my balanced dessert wines up against many dry wines with regards to layers, complexity and overall sophistication. This blog really, clearly shows how out of touch with mainstream wine country guests our host is. 25% of my gross income comes from dessert wines. I sell them everysingle day to all kinds of ppl.
I actually was googling the subject of what preferring sweet wine says about a person. I was at a restaurant tonight after a sporting event and everyone was at the bar area drinking beer, wine, etc. I was offered a beer and I said, I would love a glass of wine. I chose to drink a Riesling, the only one they offered was a St Michelle. I grew up in the South and always tasted my parents wine even when I was young. My choice has always been wine over any other type of alcohol beverage. Always, I choose a sweeter fruitier wine. However, it seems that people who drink wine at parties etc. snub their noses up to a sweeter wine and seem to be too good for sweet offerings. I am glad that I read this blog because I actually realized that , I just really like fruity sweet wine. I just simply do not like dry, bitter or sour wine. I do not care if it is the most expensive bottle in the house, if it is not light, fruity and sweeter, then I do not want to waste the time, calories or energy drinking it. It is apparent to me that a late harvest wine, such as a German spatlese Riesling or gewurztraminer spatlese wine require much patience and skill to know the perfect timing to make the most smooth, perfect tasting wine. Therefore, the bottom line is… it is all in the taste and preference and not in the class or ignorance etc. that would gravitate different people towards sweet or dry. Sometimes it is just the preference of liking chocolate over potato chips when you want to indulge. Sweet or salty… I just happen to be sweet. But now, I will not feel so un evolved for my preference. I am now 47 years old, thoroughly educated with a my university degree and work in international business. I find that Europeans appreciate the finer sweeter wines, as well. Even the Vatican has special cherished sweet wines made especially for their private enjoyment. Hmmm… maybe it takes courage to be an individual regardless of what your preference in wine is and I can boldly say, Sweet is what I savor. Is that not the good part of life?…to be able to say that you can actually know what you enjoy and then without any interference, … just enjoy ?
Cheryl, thanks for reminding us that it’s always about enjoyment, not what you should or shouldn’t be drinking.
I must honestly say…I am 20 years old and I cannot stand anything cheep, sugary, or mass produced. My father started having me smell good wine from a young age, pick out notes, and then let me taste. I think it’s all about education. Now mind you, I have an extremely sophisticated pallet for a 20 year old. I’ve liked things a child shouldn’t since I was very young. Maybe that has something to do with it. But I agree…young pallets are generally under developed and have bad taste in wine. If more parents were educated in fine wine and educated their children from a young age…Moscato wouldn’t be such an allure.